So now to come to an end: from my experience I'd say for a medium sized aircraft it is best to fly between 12-13 km. A jet engine from KSP 0.18 A jet engine is an air-breathing engine which uses onboard liquid fuel and combusts it with the oxygen drawn from the atmosphere. Along with rockets, planes are one of KSP's most commonly referenced kinds of vessel, and are a vessel type . This means it is better to have excessive amounts of oxygen than not to. Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. In the game, players direct a nascent space program, staffed and crewed by green humanoid aliens known as "Kerbals". The second, Wet mode, uses the afterburner to produce thrust almost equal to the J-X4 "Whiplash" Turbo Ramjet Engine, but at a considerably reduced fuel efficiency. Yes. Kerbal Space Program Jool Landing Youtube. In the stock atmosphere, the benefits of moving faster outweigh almost everything else. Your link has been automatically embedded. Why that? Under some circumstances, you may want to reduce the engine gimbal range or disable it altogether, particularly when flying at high speeds (e.g. A destructible memorial to the old Mk. But. Even up there the plane acts squirrely. I have enough patience to do the slow flying, but is it horribly inefficient? 1 Pod outside the level 3 VAB. 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high atmospheric science. Alternatively, you can assign the afterburner toggle (labelled "switch mode") to an action group if you wish to activate it with a hotkey. The longest flight got them down to a little more than half full. I also set it to enable the cockpit's reaction wheels to improve control at high altitude, and close air intakes to reduce drag. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Orbiting is the most fun one: the higher the orbit, the less speed you need to maintain to stay in orbit, *and* the less air there is, so that's a double-whammy in terms of reducing fuel consumption. *I use FAR these days, which basically means completely replacing every spaceplane and rocket you ever designed to account for its much more realistic aerodynamics. a screenshot of kerbal space program 2. by: lord bird. Or try using SRBs instead. Aircraft can be very temperamental to fly, especially on the keyboard. It will be expensive and time consuming. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Well, this game isn't a perfect flight simulator yet, so it will be difficult to figure out. Powered by Invision Community. Only the fuel tanks attached to rockets have any oxidiser in them. This works, but it's not optimal. By climbing, you reduce drag, exponentially with altitude. But you'll need to unlock: High Altitude Flight Which cost 300 science. The ideal case for optimally efficient flight (which is what you want if you're trying to maximize cruise altitude) is when your wings are mounted to the body, pitched up just enough that when cruising in level flight, the body of the aircraft is pointing perfectly . and our air) that high up. Also, jets eat fuel at pounds-per-minute -- if you cover twice as much ground in the same time, your plane will be more efficient. Ep. In the main KSP settings menu you should set the default throttle to 1.0 (technically the above mechjeb setting winds up restoring the default throttle, so it needs to be 1.0) In the attitude adjustment menu make sure you are using the "better controller" Whack the 45 degree phase margin button Whack the restore all other defaults button Range with this method is pretty short due to drag. But you'll need to unlock: Which cost 300 science. This means that the only thing that decides wheter your engines run efficient is determined by how much thrust they produce (opt. When you are surrounded by plenty of air there will of course be no need to suck in air artificially but the higher you get the less dense the air around you becomes and in order to make sure that your engines have enough oxygen to burn the fuel it needs to suck air in forcefully. Additionally please know that .16 will feature new code that will change the way space planes work in every aspect. When added to a plane it allows tuning of the controls vs speed/altitude/G load/other factors. You arent doing anything wrong. surface of jool. Due to the lower air pressure at higher altitudes its thrust output decreases accordingly. If released at a speed of 700 or more m/s and an altitude of 20 or more km, the satellite will achieve orbit with its second stage mostly full, leaving it with approximately 1600 m/s of delta-V -- enough to achieve lunar or interplanetary orbits and, on small bodies, landings. Either finish the low-altitudes and then spend all your fuel on the high-altitude boost, or do the boost first and save a little fuel or try to hit the rest through unpowered gliding. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. http://kerbalspaceprogram.com, Press J to jump to the feed. Most SSTO space planes would be able to accomplish this easily. This causes the body of your plane to generate additional drag. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Make sure we're on the same page with terminology. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. The returns are diminishing so eventually you will hit a ceiling. KSP Career: Episode 13 - High Altitude Surveys Mike Aben 28.5K subscribers Subscribe 7.7K views 7 years ago Day 114: A busy day at the KSC with three missions, the highlights being the launch. Check out the website and try the game out for yourself :Dhttps://kerbalspaceprogram.com/ Isn't that backwards snark? Building a High Altitude Jet | Stream pt. Your link has been automatically embedded. Basically there are two things that limit your maximum speed: thrust and speed of sound and with that your maximum altitude. Now lets combine these two indicators: The best performance your engine can achieve is when you have an optimal amount of Air Flow (obviously) but also the MAXIMUM amount of Air Intake. I should perhaps start trying out NEAR to get ready of 0.90, though. 20 votes, 21 comments. Information Changelog Stats As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity). It was meant for low altitude flight. And it's stock, unfortunately. With only panthers unlocked I might add. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. It seems to be based on the General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, which shares the same name and maximum thrust (85 kN dry). As said above, the Wheesley is specifically designed as a low altitude engine. Grichman's answer got me in the right direction. It is somewhat slow but very steady in flight. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Dedicated to the growth and advancement of amateur rocket scientists! What you should be concerned about is atmospheric drag, and that's minimized by high-altitude flight. With the tanks disconnected that way, the rockets don't leach from the jets. Display as a link instead, You can halve the drag by climbing a bit less than 3500m. The Boeing X-37, also known as the Orbital Test Vehicle (OTV), is a reusable robotic spacecraft. Should i add a larger wing area for higher lift? 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. But a rockets can do it. - "In Space High" means your craft is inside the given Sphere of Influence and above the "Space Border" altitude listed in the Celestial Body Multiplier Matrix. You are simply running out of atmosphere (i.e. Now I have a plane that will fly around the world at an altitude of the low-20s. high-2 A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program If too much air runs into the turbine, the excessive amount just flows out unused through side-vents (I think). Incidentally, for these speeds and altitudes, ordinary jets are the better choice. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. What altitude and speed should I go? But maybe your patience? The X-37 is operated by the United States Space Force for orbital spaceflight missions intended to demonstrate reusable space technologies. lost birth certificate near berlin; ksp high altitude plane. Originally posted by lord bird: yep thats right jool has a surface. I was even able to do this with three pairs of Junos instead of the large jet engine pair (I don't have the technology level for that). Turbojets are so ridiculously efficient that it doesn't really matter. Though I'm still working on learning to be better at space planes. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. To get there, you're going to want to climb at the fastest rate you can manage to 18-20 km, at which point you should mostly level off and start accelerating horizontally. However, I've failed to build a vehicle to achieve this (without a hundred retries). Air Intake) and how fast your aircraft ultimately flies (air resistance/altitude)! A well-designed jet with this engine and with the afterburner lit, flown properly, can momentarily climb to 30,000 m altitude. If too little air runs into the turbine your combustion chamber will not be able to burn up fuel effectively due to the lack of oxygen. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. If you nudge your wing's angle up slightly with rotate tool then it'll move your prograde closer to your direction of flight and significantly reduce drag. As long a you can fly faster, the lower density at altitude can be compensated for. Or about the same speed but 1000 m higher. This thread is quite old. My 'plane science' is more advanced than my 'rocket science' (career mode) because I got tired of seeing all the high-altitude missions I had on the books and wanted to finish them. I'm going to try adding a small solid fuel rocket engine toned down to get the initial height then dump it, as well as check into that high end gear mentioned. Upload or insert images from URL. - "In Space High" means your craft is inside the given Sphere of Influence and above the "Space Border" altitude listed in the Celestial Body Multiplier Matrix. Each stage of the rocket has a delta-v that depends on the stage fuel mass and the engine specific impulse. Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble. You cannot paste images directly. Ideally, you'll want to avoid these contracts until you get the High-Altitude Flight tech node and the improved jet engine that comes with it. Simply changing the intakes made it fly completely out of control and impossible to land. 1 1: The basics 2 2: Setting it up 3 3: First flight 4 4: Finishing touches 1: The basics First of all, you're going to need an airplane. 1.) Your previous content has been restored. With some fins to keep you stable and careful aim, you can hit your desired location and altitude and will have 5-10 seconds to collect data before you hurtle past it and pull your chute. The Rapier, for example, works great as a high-altitude engine, precisely because it can go so fast. Delta wings are able to work better since the lack of lift per square area is compensated by having larger area to provide lift. It is designed to aid in player-controlled flight on generic (space)plane, providing a soft layer between user joystick\keyboard input and control surface outputs. At sea level, it produces 120 kn thrust, but at 15 km altitude, it only produces 13.7 kn of thrust, barely enough to provide any thrust to climb higher, Long and narrow wing has less surface area to provide lift, and at higher altitude, the atmospher is so thin that the lift generated by long and narrow wings is insufficient for sustainable flight. - Insane TWR didn't help. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Your airspeed is mostly limited by terminal velocity; you can go much faster if you climb a little higher. Arqade is a question and answer site for passionate videogamers on all platforms. Another approach, which I was managing with some success before I figured out jets, is to build a rocket and catapult yourself towards the measurement point. Don't worry about Isp. below 5,000 m), since the engine's extreme maneuverability may allow the aircraft to perform turns sharply enough to break up in flight. You will find that when you're flying around, will always be slightly below the crosshairs on the navball. 2/3 (KSP 1.11.2) - YouTube I break out the Mk2 parts and Panther engines to build a better jet that can go higher and faster. Subscribe -. The flight time won't be as long, but you'll be able to fly a "plane" above 18km. That's because wings need to have some AoA to the airstream in order to generate much lift. Upload or insert images from URL. How do I install mods for Kerbal Space Program 1.1? For example, the RAPIER engine doesn't seem as the first choice as the "best" high altitude air-breathing engine but in long-distance and high-altitude challenges it is. Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? Pasted as rich text. Unfortunately I won't be able to test it today, but @SaintWacko's proposal sounds promising. Your link has been automatically embedded. This is the first version. Then I increase throttle until about 2/3 or even full, climbing with a high inclination (it can also go straight up). Chapter 4. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Building a rocket to fly vertical seems to be nearly impossible, in the atmosphere they tend to become unstable (or maybe I missed a trick?). They always seem to lose power at about 15km, but I'm wondering if there's something I can do to fix that. Can't remember where I saw/read about it - Scott Manley maybe? How can this new ban on drag possibly be considered constitutional? - "In Space Low" means your craft is inside the "Space Border" altitude and in an orbital path. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? Pvt. What are the altitudes for the various altitude record contracts? Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble. If you enter the Mun's SOI, it immediately counts as "In Space High over Mun" until you get below 60km Mun altitude. if you just go into the SPH, slap together some parts like Legos, and go-- is to attach them with zero AoA. Thanks. This can be done with moar boosters or more calculated wing and body design, depending on the aero model you use. Your decreased flight time means you probably won't make it to your location. That's just a guess, though-- perhaps someone more familiar with FAR could weigh in.). You also need to be going very fast to generate adequate lift at high altitudes and unlike the real U-2, you don't need to fear about overspeeding and destroying the plane. One of my planes is small and agile, and can easily enough glide to a safe landing even if the rockets consume all the fuel. jet engine efficiency in this game is based on built in thrust curves. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. I'm in career mode (have the turbofan engine) and trying to get some science readings for a mission at a high altitude. Jets drop thrust at higher altitude and speed, but also drop . KSP doesn't care (much) about aspect ratio; the total lift is the same regardless of configuration. Delta-V is the velocity change necessary to perform orbital maneuvers. You can post now and register later. Immediately starting rocket engines at full throttle turned out to make most of my aircrafts totally unstable, turning them up gradually worked way better. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. The U-2's published maximum altitude is somewhere above 74,000 feet. Be sure to have enough intakes (I think maximum efficiency in stock is 1 ramjet intake per ~2 tons of plane, though that is aesthetically ridiculous), and if you're still running short of intake air, you can dip down a bit to speed up and get to denser air. Be aware that heat buildup can gradually become a problem when the afterburners are used in sustained flight. Evidence. Technically, any rocket engine is also a jet engine as it forms a high-speed jet of reaction mass. Here's my example of dealing with the situation. rev2023.3.3.43278. Of course, this thing has very limited range, speed and acceleration because of the extra weight. There's basically three ways to do that: lifting surfaces, thrust, and orbiting. If drag were the only concern, at any given altitude the slower you go, the less fuel you need: the work done by drag over a distance grows linearly with speed (the force grows quadratically with speed, but the time falls linearly). Basically you just need to fiddle with it and try some test flights. - Inside the atmosphere works the same way, except you need to be on an suborbital trajectory. The easiest "default" way to build a plane in KSP-- i.e. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? It has two modes: The first, Dry mode, is similar to that of the J-33 "Wheesley" Basic Jet Engine, with a bit more thrust. "Whiplash" Turbojet. Is it even possible? Because when your engine has to take in air forcefully it automatically means there isn't enough surrounding your engine and that again means that air density and therefor air resistance must be pretty low too. Powered by Invision Community, Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane, I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: [] at hypersonic velocities. Air Flow: Air Flow represents with how much force air passes the turbine (notice: different amounts of air at the same speed equals in different amounts of force!). I currently have a contract where I'm asked to take crew reports at certain spots on Kerbal at an altitude of 18,000m. In KSP2, you are a rocket scientist who must build and test rockets, spaceships, and planes. This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar at high altitudes! Planes in Space. Mounting a time-limited rescue mission for kerbal inbound to Kerbin. All other versions are slower and lower and unstable in turns. As has been said, ISP is nothing to worry about. Content titles and body; Content titles only You do get certain inertial and lever-arm effects, but those aren't really relevant to 'do I have enough lift to stay up'. Is it correct to use "the" before "materials used in making buildings are"? Paste as plain text instead, At this point the plane plummets, but as it goes deeper into the atmosphere, it regains pitch authority, and at 10km it's enough to regain control and turn it around for a safe landing. All the information you could want to know about science, including the altitudes for each celestial body, and what altitudes a given experiment works on are available at: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science. Imagine that first plane but with the bubble cockpit and the old style round intakes. The thrust of jets (turbo or otherwise) depends on airspeed: basics deliver more thrust at low speeds, while turbojets only really come into their own when you fly very fast (which also means flying very high, 20km and over). Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers.. Visit Stack Exchange The Panther engine can hold 19,000 steady and oscillates around 20,000. Very cool. AoA built into the wing relative to the plane body is called the angle of incidence, just to help clear up. Remembering the FW TA152 and the U2 I put long wings on it and while its turn rate makes an airliner look like a fighter plane it is stable enough at 19000m. A temple in the desert (6 29 47 S 141 40 3 W) known as Tut-Un Jeb-Ahn, although this name can only be seen when a vessel crashes into it. I only seem to be able to make planes that can fly a bit below that altitude and then temporary rise to it. From my observations I can say that "Efficiency" is not a good indicator of how well your engine performs. Ksp engine altitudes I've been trying my hand at some High altitude speedy planes for a while now, but can't seem to get a hang of the altitudes that each engine likes, I know kerbal isn't earth, so looking up the crushing altitude of say the sr71, doesn't seem to apply, but I was hoping that others experiences would help me. Paste as plain text instead, Press J to jump to the feed. When I say ", You know you've nailed it correctly if, when you're in level flight, your. Is anywhere a list of the altitude levels (I don't know a better term) available? So, to correct " is below crosshairs", what you need to do is to add a little AoA to the wings. Have a plane that ditches its wings and rockets up to 18km once you reach the right point. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. I've been finding it difficult to build a jet that can fly over 15km alt. 2.) For comparison, the second most maneuverable engine is the CR-7 R.A.P.I.E.R. Hopefully this will be helpful to you. Air Flow + max. A full suite of flaps on the trailing edges of the main wings give it exceptional low-speed lift, and small hydroplane steps mounted on each side of the fuselage bottom help lift it out of the water (lowering water drag) during takeoff runs. If it's below the cross-hairs, you need a little more AoA. I didn't succeed with his design, though; I always ended up having somehow unstable airplanes. . In this case lots of fuel is the wrong approach, I can get more than half way around Kerbin on 2 cans of Jet Fuel and a turbojet if I glide most of it. To reach the initial low Earth orbit of the International Space Stationof 300 km (now 400 km), the delta-v is over six times higher, about 9.4 km/s. Another problem is jet engines stealing fuel from the rockets' tanks - you may want to pump the fuel manually (requires an R&D centre upgrade) or add some pipes between them. Thank you, I was able to reach up to 24km altitude with this design. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. What are the units of measure used in Kerbal Space Program? So if you want to make a plane go as fast as possible, you want to minimise both angle of attack and angle of incidence necessary to sustain level flight at your target speed and altitude. Let me. Upload or insert images from URL. Display as a link instead, That annoys me but I can't seem to get a design to make it work. The other thing to bear in mind is that tuning the AoA (angle of attack) of your wings makes a difference. It only takes a minute to sign up. Your previous content has been restored. How can I make money in the new career mode? Air Intake: Air Intake shows the amount of force your engine uses to suck air into the turbine. I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: while they are superior for low-speed, low-altitude operations, they become deadweight at hypersonic velocities. For more information, please see our Clear editor. To avoid running out of fuel altogether, I have a second plane with small tanks (no oxidizer) attached directly to the jet engines, and the rockets attached behind the fuselage, which is entirely oxidized tanks. Running the 60U engine at about 40U seems to give me a good balance between reduced drag and air intake. You cannot paste images directly. (the engines will use very little at high altitude anyway). (Actually, four ways: but balloons aren't in the stock game) Lifting surfaces are great but they lose effectiveness just as fast with altitude as drag falls. I got this game so I could over-engineer rockets, so I mostly ignore the airplanes. Sideslip handling. These are the building blocks of solid spaceplane design!Subscribe! edited 6 yr. ago. Highest and fastest possible is best. You can post now and register later. I started by attaching two LV-909 rocket engines to a regular low-atmosphere plane: In this save, I don't have custom action groups yet, so I'm using the RCS control to toggle between jet and rocket modes. I looked into the .cfg files and there are no special properties allocated to them. Unfortunately, there's no simple rule to tell you what the angle needs to be when you're building the plane-- it depends on lots of variables, such as your weight, drag, intended cruising altitude, intended cruising speed. I also had problems with a high altitude plane until I decided to follow the K.I.S.S. A little while back I spent a long time trying to circumnavigate Kerbin on the least liquid fuel possible (i posted the record to the sub: 254 units of fuel. You can post now and register later. The high performance engine for me performs pretty good till about 15000 meter. Any of my search term words; All of my search term words; Find results in. AoA and G-force moderation. I wasn't expecting so many excellent answers! Do plugins for Kerbal Space Program work on unix? This thread is quite old. alternatively, combine a liquid fuel rocket into your plane. - Insane lift to weight didn't help. Did any DOS compatibility layers exist for any UNIX-like systems before DOS started to become outmoded? I also added a parachute and decoupler since I find it too hard to correctly land this thing yet ;-) I managed to land in the water once, though. Is it possible to get to an altitude of 16-20km with normal plane engines? You need to do it with what you've got. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948095, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948668, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1934517923, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1335577943, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640213502, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640214586, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937826505, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937931692. This way control surface max deflection can be programmed by an aircraft designer to make . To get higher with the low tech jet engines, you need rocket assist. Use the reaction wheel to hold your attitude slightly nose down as you float down and you can guide yourself like a paraglider. Best way to get down into thicker air and land is to perform what dogfighters called a 'Split-S'. Cheers again fellas. It is usually best for initial designs to be based on logic and real-world physics and then be prepared to experiment with non-logical alternatives for optimisation. Clear editor. How to know if you've nailed it perfectly: when you're cruising in level flight, you want the marker to be precisely centered in your navball cross-hairs. So Pvt. You cannot paste images directly.