Given that differences in temperament and interest help determine occupational choice, and that difference in occupational choice drives variability in such things as income, it follows that political doctrines that promote equality of opportunity also drive inequality of outcome. I (a man) went for a job in HR in the Health Service. Why gender pay-gap truthers are on the rise - the Guardian Browse all HR topics According to ONS data from 2015, women still perform the bulk of unpaid domestic work, including childcare, laundry and housework. Heres a full list of the cabinet members, in case you want to contact them and let them know what you think. I said it doesnt exist because of gender.. { Western Culture is wasting a fortune to prove these PC ideas are as insane and unnecessary as they sound and meanwhile falling behind on the actual focus of the business at hand. There Really Is No 'gender Wage Gap.' There's a 'gender Earnings Gap In an interview with Channel 4s Cathy Newman, Jordan Peterson said these innate differences explained why the majority of nurses are women and the majority of engineers are men. But paying women less is inevitable, because there are inherent differences between men and womens labour: the primary one being childcare. Peterson fully endorsed Damores views, interviewing him at length on his YouTube channel. But it's hard to quantify the effect of one's work with human beings. The median gap is a blunt tool, but a powerful one. OHW+ Jordan Peterson is here to explain the gender pay gap to the media This is true, cross-culturally. The result being that differences are exacerbated. What happens if you look at sex differences in personality and interest by country? Those are in ineradicable differences. Perhaps its a consequence of their sexual vulnerability. That's the message Jordan Peterson tried to get across when speaking to "60 Minutes." First, men and women are more similar than they are different. Increasing globalisation means more co-operation.. And there is a major but. Are they betraying their true nature? Then you can argue against them on equal footing. But cooperation is not the core of engineering. Even when men and women are most different in those cultures where they differ most, and along those trait dimensions where they differ most they are more similar than different. Lets even assume (which I dont) that much of this is accrued unfairly by straight white men, as the identity politics players, such as our Prime Minister, self-righteously and vociferously insist. I don't think I've ever left my office later than 4:30 p.m. That's because my work schedule is entirely based on my teenage kids' schedules and on the countless errands I have to do on any given day that are related to, well, life. **As always, should we become aware that Jordan has changed (or added to) his opinion or should new evidence be submitted that we have either misconstrued his opinion or failed to include important statements from him, we will 1) make the correction, 2) note the correction here, 3) issue a mea culpa that attempts to explain and improve on how we missed this. Matt Dillahunty Jordan Peterson Debate - DEBETE CJK Those differences are a good thing. Features list 2023, 2011 - 2023 DVV Media International Ltd, published a blogcritical of Newmans Peterson interview, interviewing him at length on his YouTube channel, accused the company of discriminating against white conservative men, Yonatan Zunger, who responded to Damores manifesto i, https://www.chronicle.com/article/Can-We-Really-Measure-Implicit/238807, https://gynocentrism.com/2018/03/03/jordan-peterson-on-psychological-differences-similarities-between-the-sexes/, General Medical Council vows to tackle bias, STEM returners project receives government backing. countries. on: function(evt, cb) { Forum for Expatriate Management If you "write a computer program, like a piece of software, like a billion people can use it," he said. Finally: Why exactly is it a problem if men and women, freed to make the choices they would freely make when confronted with egalitarian opportunities, happen to make different choices? The selective research Peterson uses happens to be some of the most replicated and robust findings in all of the social science literature. NewsNation - Tyler Wornell 1d. These of course would override any sort of group preference in determining what sort of work one enters into, although its significant to note the acknowledgement of a field as being womens work, suggesting that there are particular qualities of the job that women are innately drawn towards. In any case, I believe very strongly that Damore is being scapegoated for expressing his opinions that how HR wants engineers to staff their teams is in-congruent with the job as he understands it. Form follows function, function rules. ); Sheila Wilds comment above (as others are ) is laughable. I was interviewed by the Diversity Officer (woman) who asked how I would work in what had been an all women team of 10. Ms. Farrell is contradicting herself here. Other factors include womens tendency for neuroticism their likelihood to experience stress, depression and unpredictability and their high level of agreeableness, to be cooperative and compassionate. TRANSCRIPT (29 mins) [00:02] In objection to Zunger, engineering isnt all about cooperation, collaboration and empathy for colleagues and customers. The linguist isnt particularly fond of his fellow social scientist. Peterson may have reservations about one method the IAT but that doesnt mean bias doesnt exist. Another approach would be to change the nature of the job to make it more friendly to women. Terms and conditions. It seems to me that these clear differences are not really that clear when you look closely at the evidence. May 23, 2018; Gender Pay Gap Reports: Entrenched segregation and how big bonuses for men create the biggest gender pay gap April 24, 2018; Gender Pay Gaps - further reflection on the BBC pay debacle April 12, 2018 Not my business: how workplace racism goes unchallenged. Scandinavians appear particularly interested in what I am saying. Re: Jordan Peterson debates gender differences, "pay gap", etc. Theres an abundance of research carried out using CVs. cooperation and collaboration are of course essential, but not so much once a jab has been parceled out to the various individual contributors. Zunger adds: Engineering is all about cooperation, collaboration and empathy for colleagues and customers. He tells Newman thatmultivariate analysis of the gender pay gap shows that prejudice is only one small factor in the pay gap, one thats much less than feminists claim. But Briner feels there is a danger the Canadians persuasive style and selective use of science could lead to a halo effect where people accept what he says without looking at the evidence. He fears his views could appeal to those who feel some resentment and who dont like to see other people gaining more power. https://goo.gl/smtUHY The Gender Scandal: Part One (Scandinavia) and Part - Jordan Peterson The rest of is the same mishmash of leftist, SJW feelings and ideology. In his interview with "60 Minutes," Peterson points out that not only do women work fewer hours than men, they choose different careers. Zunger adds: Engineering is all about cooperation, collaboration and empathy for colleagues and customers. Dr. Jordan Peterson 2019-02-24T18:52:40-05:00. You can reduce bias by some fairly simple means: getting people to evaluate several CVs at the same time taking each criterion in turn; taking the names off CVs; when conducting appraisals setting an objective of accuracy., Another stout defence of unconscious bias work comes from Jane Farrell, chief executive of the EW Group. All of these traits in your [Damores] manifesto described as female are the core traits that make someone successful at engineering. In other words, a company can instill all the policies it wants, but it can't make people do what they don't want to do. Dianah Worman, co-director of Inclusive Talent and an adviser to the CIPD, says: The concept of success is changing. Hes being vilified along with Peterson and together they are being held up as the faces of the enemy. powerful statistics can identify patterns. Had you asked any group of social scientistsleft-wing, centrist, conservative (if you could find them)30 years ago Will egalitarian social policies in wealthy countries produce men and women who are more similar or more different? it is a certain bet that the majority would have said more similar. And, to some degree, that has happened. How can we bridge the gender pay gap? https://goo.gl/mmdShw The full memo was about encouraging women in stem not excluding them. ", When the interviewer asked him why jobs that involve working with people can't be measured alongside jobs that involve working with things, Peterson correctly noted that work which is relationship-oriented nursing, teaching, child care, elder care isn't "scalable.". Is it also unreasonable to point out that the women who accepted those positions, granted to them unfairly, in a prejudiced and discriminatory manner, took that as their due, despite the unlikelihood, statistically, of their suitability for the positions in question, and thus betrayed themselves, men and women everywhere striving fairly for advancement and authority, and their country? Would the differences between men and women be larger or smaller in wealthier countries? They say he has failed to take account of the historical changes in gender roles or business and employees desire for fairness through equality of opportunity. Peterson responds by asking why women would want to, adding thatmen are more likely to want to work 70-80 hours a week. Good thing we have people like her in the world to set the record straight. Using an unfair solution to create equality will cause more division. In an interview with Channel 4's Cathy Newman, Jordan Peterson said. The job of the Federal government is important, necessary and difficult. The Gender Pay Gap Is a Myth - Canadian Women's Foundation A whole bunch of equity industry participants complain that hes too persuasive, throw out stuff like unfairness if ok if it leads to the outcomes we want, and tell companies they need to double-down on their efforts to beat Social Equity opinions into their confused staff. https://gynocentrism.com/2018/03/03/jordan-peterson-on-psychological-differences-similarities-between-the-sexes/. So, this is the Scandinavian conundrumone that also affects broader Western society (and the remainder of the world, soon enough). Why Jordan Peterson is Wrong About the Pay Gap - LinkedIn (There is an extensive but by no means complete listing of papers relevant to this issue at the site of my interview with James Damore, the Google engineer who was fired for possessing accurate knowledge of the psychological literature). Gender pay gap figures: debunking the myths They are radically over-represented among those who view my YouTube lectures. Tara Brown wasn't impressed. As one commenter (Peter Wright) on this thread says Peterson acknowledges. He's tough, calm, smart, and, most importantly, he's right. One of the first things I (and, I'm sure, he) noticed after about a month is that John is always at his desk, but I am not. Schiff entwickelt im Folgenden Hinweise darauf, dass Peterson sich auf Themen konzentriere und so kommuniziere, wie es das Handbuch . https://goo.gl/fHre1a interface language. Engineering is all about cooperation, collaboration and empathy for colleagues and customers. The Role of Agreeableness in the Gender Pay Gap As a personality psychologist, Jordan Peterson is up on the literature surrounding The Big Five personality traits and his instantaneous command of the statistical distribution of agreeableness is, at the very least, very impressive. Molyneux went on to cite the marriage gap (married women earn less, because they divide their time differently; single women . Like the Universities, HR is a corrupt institution, which is actively working for the destruction of Western Civilization. What Jordan Peterson gets wrong about the Nordic gender paradox Now hes making both a statistical and conceptual point that might sound circular but its fundamental to understanding most social science claims. Peterson argues that given the lack of science, they are skewing the argument, and I largely agree thats correct. None of those who commented in the piece regard him as a monster. score of Black Americans, it is lower (on average) than the average tested I.Q. Eradicating the pay gap could work against womens true interests, he says, by interfering with their preferred choices, such as less demanding careers. Jordan Peterson Questions If Men and Women Can Work Together - Study Breaks The rebellion against HR and the Progressive abuse of diversity targets documented here: http://amzn.to/2FQp6OM. As with all averages, it smooths out nuances and doesnt account for differences in specific job roles, age, or previous experience. There were women going to school for engineering when I went and theyre going now. 'Pseudoscience.'" Wrong. Is it truly unreasonable, therefore, to point out that the absolute poster boy for such privilege is none other than our Prime Minister, Justin Trudeaua man who dared run for the highest office in the land despite his utter lack of credentials (other than good looks, charm and a certain ability to behave properly in public) merely because his father, Pierre, turned the Trudeau name into the very epitome of status unearned by his sons? Many people have criticized VICE for only releasing a 20-minute video when the actual interview was two hours long. Just like any other productive venture its about competence first and foremost. When both full and part-time employees are included in the calculation, the gender pay gap widens after the age of 30. Women are higher in negative emotion, or neuroticism. That is simply not a reasonable solution. You failed to mention that the author quoted Peterson and sent it to these experts who had time to formulate a rebuttal without allowing Peterson to defend his position. The facts can be denied, but only at the cost of throwing out social science in its entirety (given that the entire field is predicated on the same methods used in the studies currently being discussed) and a good bit of biology as well. [Channel4] Jordan Peterson debate on the gender pay gap - NeoGAF Essentially he is saying that if you took the average amount made by men and compared it to women, there would be a difference. However, thats not exactly what he said and, as he never tires of telling us, hes, Now hes making both a statistical and conceptual point that might sound circular but its fundamental to understanding most social science claims. Jordan Peterson has had several viral clips of him discussing the gender pay or lack thereof. A third of fathers who did not take SPL said they could not afford it, according to research by the Working Families campaign group, prompting calls for the government to increase statutory paternity pay. } To begin with, the statistic alone is misleading. Why should we launch large-scale experiments aimed at transforming the socialization of children, when we have no idea what the outcome might be? To close their pay gaps, companies should ensure women are on shortlists for senior roles, be transparent about pay and promotions, and encourage men to take shared parental leave, according to government guidance. The professor pay gap | Fraser Institute Those of you have invested years in all this PC nonsense need to start singing from a different song book. I was wondering what everyone thought about this recent debate Jordan Peterson had on the television show - "Channel 4 News" Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54&t=70s 4 63 63 comments Best Add a Comment to summarize: empathy is important in any interaction with fellow humans, but there is less of that in engineering (things vs people) than in other disciplines, so engineering CANT be all about empathy. This is the largest psychological difference between men and women yet identified. The Personnel Today Awards He describes implicit association testing (IAT), developed by psychologists in the US, as deeply flawed because, he claims, they cant reproduce results with the same individuals, so are unreliable. And void of objective evidence that those belief systems are coloring my work-related behavior or impacting my organization (in which case there are ample laws allowing for my dismissal and protecting my employer from my behaviors) its not my employers business. Peterson did not say that "the market is 80% controlled by women." Why dont you accurately relay his ideas to your readers rather than making him out to be a monster. Here's another, showing that at least some of the much-vaunted gender gap in pay, which is caused by many factors, . What is the multi-variate analysis in pay gap research does Jordan In the paper, the researchers found that the best orchestras are those that are conducted with blind auditions. I have seen social scientists struggle to offer a cultural explanation, but I havent heard any such hypothesis that is the least bit credible, and have been unable to formulate one myself. If anything makes for a hostile workplace in business and universities it is the Mass acceptance of pornography. If you want to see this in real time check out the comments to nearly everything the progressives of the worlds darling, @Justin Trudeau tweets, even on the very few occasions when he doesnt reference some variation on gender/identity/grievance politics. And low female wages were not simply an expression of this worldview, they also helped to create it, Griffin wrote. Those who adopt this viewpoint, despite its apparent logical impossibility, maintain that we must redouble our efforts to socialize little boys and girls in exactly the same mannerrendering all toys gender-neutral, questioning even the idea of gender identity itselfand believe that such maneuvering will finally bring us to the ideal utopia, where every occupation and every strata of authority within every occupation is manned (so to speak) by 50% men and 50% women. You have been found out. Peterson often misses the historical context, says Kandola, ignoring the fact that men and women have taken on very different roles in different eras men dominating nursing roles until Florence Nightingale helped to create a profession that was soon considered womens work. Some take a more charitable view, and concede the pay gap does exist. But if you leave men and women to make their own choices you will not get equal outcome.. https://goo.gl/HeHWqs Jordan Peterson, Custodian of the Patriarchy - The New York Times https://lnkd.in/dShtnhj it's not exactly a debate but absolutely worth watching #debateskills Source: www.youtube.com. That is not the case for men. The Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson received considerable attention when he visited Stockholm recently. This article was first published on Mavens, an independent publication championing women in advertising. Original reporting and incisive analysis, direct from the Guardian every morning, Three gender pay gap myths debunked video explainer. Jordan petersons books:12 rules for life: an antidote to chaos amzn.to 2yqv50ymaps of meaning: the architecture of belief amzn.to 3az6u0m. And viewers see right through it. This seems to be a direct challenge to the idea that increasing diversity enlarges the pool of available talent, and so has a positive effect on the bottom line as well as being fairer. - Jack Blundell Gender pay gap reporting in Britain is making a difference. Danielle Brown, Googles vice president of diversity, rejects Damores incorrect assumptions about gender andconfidently asserts Googles commitment to its employee policies: Diversity and inclusion are a fundamental part of our values and the culture we continue to cultivate. We all want hiring processes that reward competent people. But Peterson noted that not only will the policy fail from an economic perspective, it dismisses male and female nature, which is "intractable." J. Andrew Dykens. (Not just Peterson, this has been observed by others as well, not least of all by an ex diversity hire by Apple. He also works for a national newspaper and is the author of KentWalksNearLondon. Engineers, for example, tend to be those who are not only interested in things, but who are more interested in things than most people, men or women. All of these traits in your [Damores] manifesto described as female are the core traits that make someone successful at engineering. . According to the Institute for Women's Policy and Research (IWPR) and the American University of American Women, U.S. women working full-time earned just $0.80 for every dollar earned by a man in. Jordan Peterson on homosexuality What does the author have to say about the LGBTQI movement? I would be alarmed if the HR community felt the need to close him down just because he is saying things they dont like. That's the standard tactic of the left, especially when it comes to gender issues. In the last 50 years we are being asked to override that. https://goo.gl/FwG9Mn Weve pulled together some of the most common myths to help you navigate the pay gap deniers. Saw half my companys HR staff sacked after a consultancy reviewed their policies and procedures. It's the question keeping women and diversity advocates up at night, and one outspoken academic supposedly has the answer - we can't. Jordan B Peterson, clinical psychologist and author of self-help book 12 Rules for Life, believes there are too many differences between male and female brains for women to ever achieve equal standing across every . Engineering is mostly about problem solving and logical thinking. Men and women are not the same and wont be the same, but that doesnt mean women shouldnt be treated fairly (Jordan Peterson), Sheila Wild, founder of the EqualPayPortal and former Director of Employment Policy at the Equal Opportunities Commission, published a blogcritical of Newmans Peterson interview for heightening division. They decide to take time out to have and raise children perhaps moving to more flexible work or less demanding jobs.. We cant distinguish stereotyping from perceptual habit.. To understand why the pay gap exists we need more data with more detail. Adam McCulloch is a freelance writer and production editor who has worked in sectors including travel (The Guardian), aviation (Flight International), agriculture (Farmers' Weekly), music (Jazzwise), theatre (The Stage) and social work (Community Care). Jordan Peterson debate on the gender pay gap, campus protests and He adds that the abilities and choices of men and women differed in part because of biology and this was why we dont see equal representation of women in tech and leadership. First, if the critics are claiming that the 80% number means that when men and women with the exact same skills and experience and preferences do the exact same work that women get paid 80 cents for every dollar men do, they are wrong. Men and women are essentially equal in their intelligence, and they differ very little in conscientiousness (which is the second-best predictor of success, after intelligence). Skeptic The Michael Shermer Show Jordan Peterson & Michael Shermer event : evt, . "If you're a social scientist worth your salt, you never do a univariate analysis. https://goo.gl/bsYhvf Jordan Peterson vs The Gender Pay Gap ManOfAllCreation 94.8K subscribers Subscribe 126K 6.1M views 5 years ago If you're a business owner like Jordan Peterson and looking to grow, I'd. See below for a distribution chart comparing agreeableness scores of men compared to women. Where are the largest differences? Most women just aren't interested in careers that consume their lives. Another myth says the gender pay gap is inevitable as women choose lower-paid jobs because of fixed biological traits. Channel 4 News' full, fiery interview with clinical psychologist and professorJordan B Peterson, whose views on gender have amassed great controversy - and a huge online following. As might be expected, Peterson is not a fan of the growing desire to test and train in the area of unconscious bias. Damore was fired in August last year and has subsequently accused the company of discriminating against white conservative men in a class action claim. Well, the traits mentioned here certainly have relevance to the success of a TEAM, but its hard to see how they specifically have to do with the discipline of engineering. Jordan Peterson is a clinical psychologist, author, and speaker. } Why is this even a controversy? They want your perceptions to fall into accordance with their demands. Take the IAT for example. In fact, if you draw a random man and a random woman from the population, and you bet that the woman is more aggressive/less agreeable, youd be correct about 40% of the time. Its 20 to one female nurses to male and approximately the same male engineers to female engineers, he explains. Perhaps the most worrying thought is not that Damores views may be wrong but that in writing them he committed an offense worthy of dismissal. For example, PayScale issued a report entitled: " The State of Gender Pay Gap 2019 " based on a survey of 1.8 million wage earners. Thousands of companies have filed their gender pay gap figures, revealing men are paid, on average, more than women in the majority of British businesses. Since when did my employment come not just with a paycheck but thought policing? If they are forced to adopt traditionally male thoughts like aggressiveness, working at the expense of family, they are more likely to work their way up the political/business ladder. And these differences drive occupational choice, particularly at the extremes. 6 ways to convince a skeptic the pay gap is real - CNBC Its not just the hard cash costs of diversity officers and these programs nor the losses theyll face when they lose in court its the insane distraction of counting colored faces and skirts vs pants that is a terrible waste of energy that moves nothing forward at all. https://www.scribd.com/document/355823379/Google-s-Ideological-Echo-Chamber.
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